Dave Jackson began podcasting in 2005 and launched the School of Podcasting (schoolofpodcasting.com). His School of Podcasting show has over 3 million downloads. He has helped hundreds of people plan, launch, and grow their podcasts. He is the author of the book Profit from your podcast and is a featured speaker at events. In 2016 Dave joined Libsyn (the largest podcast hosting company) and is their Head of Podcaster Education. In 2018 he was inducted into the Academy of Podcasters Hall of Fame.

TRANSCRIPT

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  You made it to Chiro Hustle! Sit back and learn from the greatest influencers in the profession on the world's number one chiropractic podcast. Before we dive into this powerful episode, please remember to subscribe to our channels and give us a 5-star rating on iTunes to continue hustling.

This episode is brought to you by…

ChiroHD – More than an EHR; Practice Management, Simplified.

EVO Creative Media – A boutique, high quality video content co-op.

The Chiro Hustle Podcast is sponsored by ChiroHD, EVO Creative Media, 100% Chiropractic, Chiro Health USA, Imaging Services, Chiro Moguls, New Patients in a Box, PureChiroNotes, Titronics, Sherman College of Chiropractic, Life Chiropractic College West, Pro Hockey Chiropractic Society, Pro Baseball Chiropractic Society, and the IFCO.

Now, if you're looking to increase contributions toward preserving The Sacred Trust within the Chiropractic Subluxation model; in a way that honors our Innate and Universal Intelligence but lack the time and energy to launch a new initiative? Then, check out our Patreon page and choose the option that best fits your ability and desire to invest toward The Big Idea in support and restoration of freedoms to speech, medical and family health.

Now let’s hustle!

LUKE MILLETT (PRODUCER):  Hey guys, welcome to episode 598 of the Chiro Hustle Podcast. I'm your producer, Luke Millett, and here's your host, James Chester.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  So today we have the opportunity of interviewing Dave Jackson. And if you want to understand why chiropractors should be podcasting, stay tuned for the full episode. Welcome back. This is another episode of the Chiro Hustle Podcast. Today I'm Dave Jackson on with me. Hall of Fame Podcaster. But we're going to talk about all things chiropractic also. He said that one time a chiropractor fixed his back and I think that's pretty cool. I'm going to let you guys know the big why. Why do we do what we do over here at Chiro Hustle? First things first is freedom of speech. We've never censored anyone. We think it's very important. I used to not always have that type of like a stance, but as I started seeing people get censored, I think it's more important that we let people know that that's very important to our culture to be able to be acknowledged and heard and seen and not to be shadow banned or censored. So that's first things first. Second thing is we believe in medical freedom of family health freedom. They're not the same thing. If you're confused, maybe search them, find out what medical freedom is. And that's why I urge everybody to find a chiropractor because they are, I believe, the last piece on the chess board between medical tyranny and freedom of health. So that's a big part of Chiro Hustle podcast. We do get a bit more philosophical. We protect the sacred trust. If you don't know what that means, stop this podcast right now and go search for BJ Palmer's last words, BJ Palmer's sacred trust. You're going to learn more about chiropractic than you did previously. I guarantee you, even if you're a chiropractor, go do it. And then we do support subluxation-based chiropractic and intelligence, a universal intelligence. We believe that when someone gets adjusted manner, women to physical, it connects them to matter, one, the spiritual. And with that, Dave Jackson, welcome. James, glad to be here. Podcaster, podcaster. I'm happy to have you here.

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  Yeah. Always great. I'm always happy to talk podcasting and how it fits in with whatever the heck you're trying to do.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah. I know that you started a school for podcasters. Talk about that a little bit.

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  Yeah. I, my background is in teaching. I have been teaching people technology since the fax machine. So I actually taught people how to surf the internet. This is before Google. And if you say that to somebody who's around 30, their brain will explode, that there was internet before Google. But yeah, so I had, I'd been teaching, but my background was in engineering. I kind of fell into teaching. And I was getting ready to go back to school to get a teaching degree because I couldn't get a job in teaching because my degree was in engineering, even though I'd had this really long resume and I thought, man, I need something to make money while I go back to school. And a friend of mine had said, Hey, you know, how you missed the MySpace boat, which again, kind of dates me. And I said, yeah, yeah, don't rub it in. He said, well, I've seen the next big thing. And I go, what is it? And he goes podcasting and I googled it. And there was one and a half pages. And I'm like, wait, how do you spell this again? He's like, P O D and I type it back in one and a half pages. I go, I think we just broke the internet. And so when I finally pieces party one together and I upload a file and I see it come back down into my app, I was like, Oh, this could be huge. And so I needed a job. So I was like, in this for the record, this is the worst reason to start a podcast. I needed to make money quickly. That just doesn't work. But I build a website because they were also saying that membership sites were going to be the next big thing. And Mike, well, if memberships and podcasting are going to be the next big thing, let's combine them. And I did, but that's also why I was building websites for people, why I was teaching guitar lessons, why I was playing in a band because in the early days, this is back in 2005. And those days, you'd ask somebody about podcasting and they'd say, do I need an iPod for that? So over the years, it's grown. And now I offer unlimited one on one consulting with it. It's a lot of fun, but yeah, it's, you know, at the time, I didn't know what I was doing. I've learned a lot of lessons along the way. And but yeah, you can find that at schoolofpodcasting.com.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, I going back in time like you did, I finished college in 2002. And I didn't know what a podcast was. And I was going back through my timeline and, you know, the whole time hop thing on Facebook. I went back and saw something and I was like, wow, eight years ago, I bought my first yeti blue. And I bought my first all things podcasting. And here's the thing, this should get everybody a bit of confidence maybe. I bought that Dave. I put it in a closet, unopened. It sat in my closet for a year and a half. The mic, the camera, all the things. Because number one, I didn't like the way I looked on video. And number two, I didn't like my voice. And number three, I had this really strange thing that I did when I was on camera because I raised my head up and down like this nervous thing that I would do. So I'm like, I don't, and I'm not very techy number number four. I'm not techy. Some people don't know about me. I've never edited a podcast in my life. I've never done the audio part. I've never done any of the parts. All I do is interview people. So the cats out of the bag, like I am not techy and I bought all my gear eight years ago, sat on a shelf and then I called up my buddy and I was like, hey, would you help me put all this together? And he's still the producer of the show six and a half years later. Thanks, Luke. Yeah, there you go.

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  And I would say you think you don't have the skills, but if I said, hey, have you ever been in the car and your jam comes on and you're like, Oh man, I love this song. So you turn up the radio and then the phone rings. And let's pretend it's someplace where you can answer the phone. So what do you do? Well, you turned on the radio so you can hear the phone and I'm like, okay, you know how to mix audio. If you've ever attached a word document or a PDF to an email, then that's the same skill as uploading an MP3 file to a media host. It's really, you know, we've all figured out that the red button is usually the record button, whether it's on a VCR cassette or anything else. So I'm not here to say there's no learning curve. I'm just saying it's not as scary as you think it is.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Well, yeah. And I just, the whole thing I'm trying to tell people is it's okay to not be good at stuff. Oh, absolutely. And it's okay to find experts like yourself to learn from. So go to school of podcasting.com and let Dave help you out. But let's switch into chiropractic a little bit. And I'm really curious, your perspective, I know I didn't really warm you up to any of these questions. I just said, Hey, this is what we're going to do. But why should chiropractors start a podcast in their local markets?

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  Well, number one, it's, it doesn't matter if it's a chiropractic. If it's any kind of thing about you're kind of a back coach, right? Aren't you in a way? So by starting the podcast, number one, it frees you up from any question that really they don't need you to answer. I had a friend of mine that was in real estate and people kept asking him all these really like, which is fine. We all start wherever we start, but he'd ask these questions and he's like, uh, you know, I, you don't really need me to answer this question. It's on the internet. But what he did was he took all those questions because like mine is what's the best microphone under a hundred bucks. I get that twice a day. And it's the Samsung Q2U or the Audio Technica ATR 2100. Take your pick. But you take those kinds of questions and you put them out as a podcast. Now when somebody emails you that you go, oh, it's, and still answer their question. Obviously you want customer services always top, but then say, I also answered this for more information. Listen to it on my podcast. Now when they go over there, they're going to see all those other questions that you're like, oh, if I have to answer this one more time, there now they get to know you because you can, you know, versus words on a page. Now you've got a little bit of tone of voice and you can kind of inject some of your personality that way. So that's the big one. A, it's going to free up your time from doing some of that one on one stuff that they don't really need you in person to do. And then number two, you're going to start to build that relationship with your listeners, which would then become your customers. And then number three is because you do it on whatever schedule you do. It could be twice a month. It could be once a week, whatever you want to do. And it kind of depends on why are you starting your podcast. But when you come up with a regular schedule, now you're seen as reliable. And if you deliver them good information like, oh, I didn't know if I do this, it will take off some of the strain on my back, or I didn't know this or that. Now they like you because you're giving them information that helps them remove some of that back pain or stops them from throwing out their back yet again. And they're like, why this this person's really helpful. And when you have a regular schedule, you're seen as reliable. So now when they do need some, you know, wow, I really messed up my back. Something's going wrong here. Who are they going to call? They're going to call you because they feel like they know you. And I do the same thing. I was in Texas this year and I met somebody who I've listened to their podcast for years. And it's, it's this weird kind of dynamic because I feel like I've known them because I've listened to hours and hours of their show. They don't have a clue who I am. And so it's kind of weird because when I actually met them in person, I could kind of in my head, I'm going, this is so weird because they have no idea who I am. But I feel like I know this person already. So you're building that relationship with your potential customers.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  So fun question for you. Do you ever go back and listen to yourself?

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  Yeah, I do on a regular basis. My goal is to my background again in teaching. So I'm always looking to not, you know, drastically change me overnight, but how can I get 1% better? And then the next day, get 1% better. And so I'll go back and most of my shows are solo shows and people go, well, should I do an interview show or a solo show? And I'm like, why are we limiting ourselves? Let's do both. Because when you do an interview show, you grow your network. Now you're making somebody else look good. So at the end of that interview, if the goal was to set you up as an expert, be sure to do what I call the Jerry Springer, where Jerry had this talk show, he's a guy back in the 90s and people would be throwing chairs at each other. And at the end, Jerry would go, what did we learn today? So at the end of this interview, after you've made somebody look good, be sure to do a Jerry Springer at the end and go, you know, that was a great interview with Dave. You know what really stood out to me was this. Now you get to inject your personal story and ever so passively, aggressively remind people that, oh yeah, it's my show. So when you do interviews, you grow your network, when you do a solo show and none of the stupid YouTube stuff of, hey guys, no, talk to one person. I'm so glad you're here. You know, talk to that one person and now you grow your influence. And so, you know, don't do just one or the other. Do both. So, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, I'm going to talk about it. And then, there is some sort of attachment there telling me something about yourself. That doesn't seem to fall off. But then, there are also things in second when I talk. And like, I think I talked to it myself where I want to talk about reality, what kinds of things I need to deal with. And then, and then, you know what, that's a reason about it, because I want to show it.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Because then, maybe a lot of Stanford students were able to talk to the students about the understand Watson. Can you tell me a whole lot about where everything is coming out made the show about me. I make that clear too. Like I made the show about everyone else. But I do think that's really good advice. Have a solo track that you do and have an interview track that you do and always come back full circle to the end of it and be thankful for your guests and have a moment to reiterate some of the things that you talked about. And the Jerry Springer effect is kind of interesting. I've never heard it before. Yeah. 2024. We're on the doorstep. We're not good. What's the relevancy of a podcast show in 24?

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  The relevancy is always going to be based on how well you know your audience. My kind of bumper sticker answer to this is spend $100 on a microphone, spend 100 hours getting to know your audience. So if you can figure out what struggle they're having and you can provide tips for them to help them avoid that, that's really relevant. So like right now I'm doing a bunch of online classes about YouTube and video and how to do it better and easier and faster. I've been doing my own YouTube channel, but I'm like, okay, how can I do this without having it take up my entire week? Because I have this whole thing called podcasting that I'm doing as well. So that is relevant. I paid money for that because it's going to save me time. And that's I mean, it's an old adage, right? You're either going to pay in currency, whatever that is, or time. And so in this case, I had, and I always say you pay with the one you are the most of. So I was kind of short on time. So I paid somebody to teach me in this case, I'm using Ecamm live and I'm going through that course. So in terms of relevancy, it's up to you to make it relevant. I don't want to be the most downloaded show. I want to be somebody's most favorite show. I want to be the most talked about show. Downloads are great if you want to have advertising blah, blah, blah. But for me, I want to be the most talked about. And I want people I have a guy that that emailed me once. He said, Dave, you're with me every Monday on my way to the feed store. So I want to be their Monday morning listen, because I release on Monday.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, I've always kind of warned people against vanity metrics. You can buy vanity metrics. It doesn't mean that your show is good.

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  Yeah, there's there's a metric that I'm really focused on because we all love to talk about downloads and we're not getting enough. And they'll they'll ask me, they're like, Dave, I'm getting X amount of downloads. Let's say it's, I don't know, 150. And I'm like, I'm getting 150 downloads. Is that good? Well, it kind of depends if it's the the pygmy pony podcast, right? That's super niche. How many people are into pygmy ponies? That might be like half the people that are into pygmy ponies. So that's brilliant. But if I'm doing a hey, we're all fat show, and I get 150 downloads, that might be a little disappointing because there are millions of people that need to lose weight. And so this is where you have to know your why. Is it I'm positioning myself as an expert? Am I trying to, you know, get advertisers? Am I trying whatever your why is there a bunch of those? Am I just trying to get the word out? There's a a great show called Congressional Dish. And this is a person that reads the bills that goes through Congress. And she tries to stay impartial. She's just like, Hey, here's what the bill was. Here's what they voted on. And her goal is to help you vote people that are not doing their job in Congress out. Doesn't matter if they're Democrat or Republican. Let's get the bad people out of here. And so she's really that's her her motivation. Now she does say if you enjoyed this show, she has Patreon and all sorts of other ways you can support her. But she can't take ads because it's a political show. So it really depends on, you know, why you're doing it. And then because if you don't get your why, you're going to burn out. And then you have to know who your audience is. And if you just talk about what they want to talk about, well, then, you know, you're going to end up talking about cat videos and French toast recipes. So it's a matter of knowing, why am I doing this? And who is it for? And then your what comes from where that overlaps? How long can I talk about this and still hold their attention while getting them to move towards my why, whatever your why may be.

This episode is brought to you by…

ChiroHD – More than an EHR; Practice Management, Simplified.

EVO Creative Media – A boutique, high quality video content co-op.

The Chiro Hustle Podcast is sponsored by ChiroHD, EVO Creative Media, 100% Chiropractic, Chiro Health USA, Imaging Services, Chiro Moguls, New Patients in a Box, PureChiroNotes, Titronics, Sherman College of Chiropractic, Life Chiropractic College West, Pro Hockey Chiropractic Society, Pro Baseball Chiropractic Society, and the IFCO.

Now, if you're looking to increase contributions toward preserving The Sacred Trust within the Chiropractic Subluxation model; in a way that honors our Innate and Universal Intelligence but lack the time and energy to launch a new initiative? Then, check out our Patreon page and choose the option that best fits your ability and desire to invest toward The Big Idea in support and restoration of freedoms to speech, medical and family health.

Now let’s hustle!

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Well, good points, you know, and with chiropractic, a lot of people that watch our show. Last month, we had 60,000 people come to our website, listen to our show. Nice. I'll just tell you, there's 60,000 chiropractors in the United States. So we're commanding a niche audience that comes to us twice a week. We drop on Mondays and Thursdays. So people will tell me all the time, you know what, I'm my drive to work, or during my time of meditation, or during my like night drive home. I listen to your show and it makes all the difference in my practice. It remotivates me, it gives me information about marketing, it gives me, you know, somebody else's story. And, you know, our big why when I open it up, Dave, I'm always like, you know what, freedom of speech, medical freedom, family health freedom. And I let people know our big why, because if they only give me that first two minutes, I'm going to make an impact with them with our message. And then if they find that they like our message, then they'll stick around for the whole show. So I want to make sure that I'm constantly giving value. And then we have a good conversation about things that matter to the practitioner. And knowing that we get that much, usually we get about a quarter of the profession listening to our show every month.

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  There go. And then something else you can do, I know at the beginning, twice you said, if you haven't heard of this, go and research it. Here's a better way to do it. Like, what's your website? What's your URL? ChiroHustle.com. So you could say, hey, this will be in the show notes out of ChiroHustle.com. Everything I just talked about, you don't have to search for it, just go to my website. And so you always want to direct people to your website, because that's where the fun happens. So if you're selling a book or a course, or you want people to buy you a coffee or whatever it is, all the calls to action are at your website. And you just gave them something of value. There's this great thing you got to see. It's called the such and such. Don't say go find it, go, oh, I found it for you. It's at my website, ChiroHustle.com. Good advice.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  You know, that's the thing about when you get somebody else into the same niche as you. And you can talk about things that are relevant to me. And I very rarely get a chance to talk to somebody about podcasting. It's mostly interviewing people about chiropractic and profession.

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  Yeah. Well, and you need somebody who's going to tell you the truth. This happened about four months ago. Kim Newlove is a student of mine. She does the pharmacist voice. And she sends me this email says, Dave, you know, I love you. And I thought, Oh, this is going to be an interesting email. And she says, you have a typo in your podcast. And I email her back. I go, which episode she goes, no, no, it's in the show, like in the name of the show. And I go, wait, which podcast I have a couple, she goes, the school of podcasting. And sure, sure enough, there was school of podcasting, planned, launch, grow, and monetize your podcast. And so you need somebody who cares enough about you to go, Hey, you know, you've been doing the show. It's about an hour and a half long. You usually lose me about the 50 minute mark when you start talking about blah, blah, blah. You need somebody to say, because if you ask mom, mom's going to go, Oh, look at you. You sell professional with the microphone. Yeah. You know, but mom's not talking about your content. So you need people to say, Hey, I like this part. This part wasn't so great. You might want to polish it a little bit. So you need, you need those truth tellers.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  I love it. I love it so much because I need somebody to see some blind spots every once in a while. And we all do. In that episode 598, we've done so many things to improve along this journey. You know, we wrote new questions. We figured out new automations. We figured out new ways to do posting and new podcast hosting sites and all these things. But one of the things I'm really curious about from you as being an expert is growth. I'm sure there's lots of people out there that have YouTube channels or podcasts or they're doing reels or whatever it might be. What is your best advice for somebody to get growth?

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  What I just said, find somebody to tell you the truth, because 70% of podcasts are discovered via word of mouth. And so if you like, I have attended a church in the past that there are always like, bring a friend to church. And I'm like, it's kind of boring. And I kind of wish I could find a better one. So you want to make sure that when you say, Hey, thanks so much for listening today. Today we talked about whatever the subject was. If you know somebody who would benefit from this knowledge, could you do me a favor? And actually, it's going to make you look good. Can you share this podcast with your friend or just tell them to go to, you know, ChiroHustle.com. That kind of stuff you want to spur on word of mouth, because we're looking for podcasts listeners. So many people I see agencies now, Oh, we'll put your podcast. We'll put an ad for your podcast all over these other websites. Like Yahoo or whatever. And I might wait, that's not where podcasters are going. So you have to do that. I've seen people do mail order stuff, like they'll send out postcards. And I'm like, okay, if you got a postcard in the mail, unless you have a phone in your back pocket to scan that QR code, you're going to put the postcard down, you're going to forget about it. So guessing on other shows, don't look at other chiropractic podcasts as your, you know, your, your enemy or your competition. Now these are people you can collaborate with, because it's not radio where, you know, I can't listen to you at 730 because my other shows on, you can listen to me on Monday, you can listen to Daniel J. Lewis on Tuesday, you can listen to David Hooper on Wednesdays. And those are all my competitions. They're also some of my best friends. So don't look at other chiropractors as, you know, the enemy or your competition. And the idea is to get in front of people that don't know your show.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, we call it cross pollination marketing. Yep. And I think that's really important to have people understand this is I always tell people to start the podcast in our local community and interview people and go find out who has the best ratings in their community, whether it be a coffee shop or a Pilates studio or the sandwich place or the dry cleaners. And whoever has the most reviews and the most, you know, Google, you know, ratings, I was like, ask those people to be on your podcast and say we're in Grand Junction, Colorado. I say call it spotlight, Grand Junction and find yourself 20 businesses to interview. And if you like it, stick with it. If you get through those 20 businesses and you realize this isn't the right thing for you to be doing, then maybe do something else. But a lot of times people ask me advice on starting a podcast. I'm sure they do that for you too, considering you have a school. And I always say, hey, create 52 episodes, put one out a week. If you get through that first year and you're like, this isn't for me, then don't go forward and do podcasts. But yeah, at least have to give it a good try and to see if it's the right thing for you. And I guarantee you, after a year of podcasting, you're probably going to be like hooked on it. And you're going to figure out better ways to do it. And you're going to find that it's going to not only benefit you, but like you said, it's going to build up your resources of connection. And it's going to give you that what you said earlier, that cultural positioning, and it will give you that relevance in your market.

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  Yeah, absolutely. That's another way of looking at this. You could do a hyper local show on your particular little town that you live in. And then the sponsor is guess who you sponsor a show about your town, your little location. And that way everybody's tuning in, not just about chiropractic things. They're talking about the, oh, what's going down down at the local theater and what's happening about this? And did you know the history of the local pizza shop or whatever it is? And then you can have like a community calendar. And then before we get to that, a word from our sponsor. And then this is where, hey, is your back hurting? Have you been trying to get that thing out of your neck for years? You need to come see, you know, Dr. Dave, he can fix your back problems. I have a friend of mine that had a sporting goods show. And he did a podcast about an underserved kind of sport, which was women's fast pitch softball. So he did this in depth show about women's fast pitch softball brought to you by Leeland sports. And he did things where he would have coupons that only worked on the website. And the only place he mentioned them were in his podcast. And he said, so he proved without a doubt that he was getting customers from his podcast. And in the end, he ended up going to the Olympics, he covered the Olympics, women's fast pitch softball in the Olympics, because he was seen as the media. But he just found a sport that was underserved. So in this case, it might be that your local little town isn't getting any news because, well, they're not as, you know, they're smaller than the big town next door. I run into that. I'm in Akron, Ohio. Cleveland is about an hour south and everything's all about Cleveland. So when you do a local show, this is where people are like, Oh, this is about me. I just saw that last week. And then oh, by the way, the sponsor is is me. And that's a great strategy.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Well, let's focus on you for the next couple minutes. Your book, um, profit, what's it called here? It is here. I'll hold it up for you.

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  Profit from podcast proven the strategies to turn listeners into a livelihood available at profit from your podcast.com. He said on a pewkey radio voice. Yeah, I, it took me about two years to write. I got the book deal because of my podcast. They approached me and said, Hey, would you like to write a book about podcast monetization? And I set out, I interviewed about 70 different podcasters. And I go through the different ways that you know, you can make money with your podcast. And for the record, I always tell people upfront, you don't have to make money with your podcast. I know people that are having a great time and they feel horrible. And I go, why? And I go, cause I'm not making any money. And Mike, was that the goal when you started? And they're like, no, I just want to have fun with my friends. I go, your show is successful, cause you're having fun with your friends. But yeah, the, the most profitable thing you can do is sell your own product or service. So whether that's consulting, whether it's courses, whether it's a book, whatever it is, because again, you've built that relationship with your audience. So that's the number one way. Then we get into, in some cases, affiliate marketing, which is selling other people's stuff. So I sell a fair amount of microphones and such through Sweetwater and Amazon and both those give me a little kickback from that. And it doesn't cost the customer anything else. Then you get into crowdfunding and everybody's like, not ads. And I'm like, nope, ads are actually probably one of the worst ways to monetize your show. Crowdfunding, if you go to graph, so GRAPH, trion, so t-r-e-o-n, graphtreon.com, it's people on Patreon and you can see where people are making like $422,000 a month. It's nuts. It's crazy. So, but those are people that haven't been podcasting six weeks or six months. It's, you know, six years, maybe 12 years they've been doing it a while, but it's adding it up. Then you get into host red ads. And those pay somewhere around $20 per 1000 downloads. But that only works for about 10% if you're lucky of most podcasters. And then you get into what are called programmatic ads. So now you only need 2000 downloads a month. And those pay somewhere between three and $10 per 1000 downloads. So you're not going to retire on that, but it might pay for your hosting. But for me, the biggest way you benefit from a podcast is through the relationships. Because what happens is those relationships lead to opportunities and opportunities lead to relationships. And so it just becomes this big circle that just starts to revolve around. And all of a sudden you come up to an opportunity and they go, oh, by the way, we'll pay you to do that. So it's, to me, the relationships is what a lot of people overlook in terms of like, well, and you get free stuff. Occasionally I'll have somebody send me something because they want my opinion. And then there's donations. I know I have there's crowdfunding, and then there's just donations. I had somebody send me a $100 gift card for Christmas. They're just like, hey, I really love your show. Enjoy. I was like, wow. Okay. So that's you do get surprised from time to time.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Well, I'll let everyone out there know to follow up on what you just shared there. We have one more topic, but we've been monetized since episode one. And I'm very thankful for that. We right now have between 12 and 13 sponsors that support our show. And I'm very thankful for that. And if you want to hear them, here you go. This is from coach Dave. Go over to ChiroHustle.com and listen to our show. And there's a sponsorship tab on ChiroHustle.com and check out all of our amazing sponsors that help support this mission that we're on here at Chiro Hustle. Yeah, I think what you said, there was there's a lot of gold there. Do podcasting because it's fun. Number one, I really believe that people that have more fun with what they do, they'll stick with it. And like you said, if you track the success, like there's metrics for everybody, or you can make your own playbook like what we did. Like I said, this is what we're going to do. This is how much we're going to charge for it. And this is how many we're going to go get. And this is how we're going to build our product and our brand. And a lot of times people listen to our show and I don't pitch them anything. And what they do is they'll reach out to me individually and say, Hey, I heard that you're the guy that can go get me 50 new patients on a weekend. What does that look like? And I'll say, well, it's really great that you asked me because I can go do that for you. And this is how we go down that path. But I never made this show to like pitch anything. And I never made the show about me. So I think a lot of times when people listen to what we do, they will definitely get some takeaways to say, look, maybe I don't need to do an interview show like James. Maybe I should just do these little solo episodes that talk about conditions and how I can help people. And I'll drive people to that and it'll be five minutes. Great. And that's the show too. So just because I do like a long format where it's 30 minutes of having to guest on, that's what I enjoy doing. So I do that. So I think that that's the most important thing from my takeaway from having you on as a guest today is people should do podcasting because they enjoy it. And they should do it because it's fun.

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  Yeah. And you hit the nail on the head. It also doesn't have to go on forever. You could come up with your top 15 things that people ask you turn each one into an episode and say, all right. You know, and if you know that, then you can say, Hey, this is episode three of 15 talking about how to live a healthier life with a healthy back or whatever it is, it doesn't have to go on forever.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah. And then you have it as a tool and as a resource to marketing tool. Like I did this show because I wanted to document chiropractic. I wanted to create more content on chiropractic than anybody ever has done in the history of the profession. So that's why I'm relentless. And I do typically five shows every Tuesday, we release twice a week. And I really want to be a daily show eventually. So that's my ambition with why I do this is because I want people to have access to the truth of natural health. And that's chiropractic. And I believe everybody deserves to have access to a chiropractor. So I will continuously push out content because I'm documenting this profession like it's never been done before. And that's my gift back to the profession because I think that somebody needed to step in and do that. One of my mentors would always tell me if we don't tell the story someone else will make up one about us. So I'm like, I'm just going to keep on telling the story and keep on telling the story and keep on telling the story because it never gets old to me.

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  That's it. That's where your passion comes into play. Yep. So last topic.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Audio first video. I know a lot of people are like confused. They think they have to have things streaming on everything. They think they have to have the YouTube channel. They think they have to have all the streamers. They think that to be making the reels. They think that to be on the TikTok, on the Instagram stuff. Like what is what's most important?

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  Well, what's most important is your content. Really for me, whether it's downloads, views, whatever you want to call them, it's the value in the episode multiplied by smart marketing. So smart marketing is maybe not promoting the knitting podcast in the death metal Facebook group. Not a lot of death metal people may be into knitting. So that's not smart marketing. Figuring out who's my audience, where are they? Let's go there. Let's make friends with them and then tell them about the show. So it's value times promotion. So if I have no value in my episode, because I don't know, it's Thursday and I owe you an episode. So I'm just going to ramble for 20 minutes. You can promote that all you want. The Lone Ranger was a movie that Disney put out in the 90s. It's horrible. They spent $265 million promoting that thing. And it's still lost money because good marketing will not trump bad content. So there's that. But when it comes down to video and audio, I always say start with audio first. Now why? A much easier. Don't have to shave. You can podcast in your jammies. You buy a microphone for 80 bucks. You buy a media host for five to 20. And you know, that's it. You're off to the races. And now you can figure out, you can find your voice. You can do all that practicing and get done. Once you do that and you're like, okay. And people go, I want to take my podcast to the next level. You are not taking your podcast to the next level. You're starting a YouTube channel. It's completely separate. There are people that worship the ground of who's the super big YouTube guy, Mr. Beast. Right. They were they all they do is watch Mr. Beast all day. They have no idea what a podcast is. And they have people that do nothing but listen to the podcast. They're like, Mr. Who? So it's not a case where when you start a video podcast, a video version of your audio podcast, it's not going to drive people to the audio podcast. There are studies that recently came out. But here's the problem. And nobody talks about this. YouTube is struggling. I know they're huge. I know they're big. But TikTok is starting to eat some of their lunch in terms of advertising. So YouTube started to panic. And they're like, we got to get people talking about YouTube again. How can we do that? What's the hot thing right now? Podcasting. Great. We're going to say podcasting is in YouTube. No, it's not. And this is where people will call me an old crumudgeon. And it's just not it's a YouTube it's a YouTube channel, embrace your YouTube. But a video on YouTube is not a podcast. Now people go, yeah, but the host said, Hey, welcome to the podcast. Yeah, because the host doesn't know they're a YouTuber. I don't understand this, but that's not it. So you're actually starting a YouTube channel when you start a podcast on YouTube. And if you got the budget and the time and you don't mind obsessing about cameras and lenses and lighting and backdrops and thumbnails and algorithms by all means start a YouTube channel as you start your podcast. But I'm just here to say that all those seven things I just mentioned are a lot of things to think about versus okay, I got content microphone, audio quality. That's it. And maybe my website, my artwork, but it's a lot more thought. But I always say I'm not anti YouTube. I'm like, if you got the budget and the time by all means, it is the number two search engine. Just don't think it's going to grow your podcast. It's going to grow your YouTube channel. And you can kind of do both because some people like to watch and some people like to listen. So that's, that's my thoughts. I'm I myself, I'm going to ramp up my YouTube channel in 2024. But that's why I'm spending time learning how to work my stream deck and E-Cam live so that I can basically have things done. I have a teleprompter in front of me. And I'm going to be able to hopefully spit out a weekly YouTube video in about an hour. That's the plan.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Well, Dave Jackson, podcaster, Hall of Famer, profit from podcast book, School of podcasting.com. Today, we talked about why chiropracts should start a podcast, the relevancy of chiropract or podcasting in 2024. Best way to grow a podcast, we talked about the love of podcasting versus the monetization of podcasting and vanity metrics are what they are. And it doesn't mean that people know love and trust you. It just means that you have something that says, Hey, look at me. I have a bunch of false and fake numbers around my thing. And it doesn't mean that you're cool. And if you want to learn more about podcasting, go to school of podcasting.com reach out to Dave. I know he takes on one on one clients and teaches them how to do all the cool things with podcasting. If you have some basic questions about lights or mics or cameras or hosting sites, Dave is your guy with all that. Dave Jackson, thanks for being our guest today. James, thanks so much for having me. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you'd like to share with our audience today?

DR DAVE JACKSON DC (GUEST):  No, man, you did a really good job. This was great. And you kept it tied into your audience, which is chiropractor. So, you know, kudos to you, man.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yep. So I just I close out like this every time. And I tell everybody, just like Russell Brunson said, you're just one funnel away. I tell everybody, you’re just one story away. Keep hustling. I'll see you guys on the next episode.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Thanks for listening to Chiro Hustle. Don't forget to subscribe and check back next week to continue hustling.

This episode is brought to you by…

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The Chiro Hustle Podcast is sponsored by ChiroHD, EVO Creative Media, 100% Chiropractic, Chiro Health USA, Imaging Services, Chiro Moguls, New Patients in a Box, PureChiroNotes, Titronics, Sherman College of Chiropractic, Life Chiropractic College West, Pro Hockey Chiropractic Society, Pro Baseball Chiropractic Society, and the IFCO.

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