October 18, 2023

We Are Stronger Together in Chiropractic with Dr Brenda Toler DC – Chiro Hustle Podcast 501


JIM CHESTER (HOST):  You made the Chiro Hustle. Sit back and learn from the greatest influencers in the profession on the world's Number One Chiropractic Podcast. Before we dive into this powerful episode, please remember to subscribe to our channels and to give us a 5-star rating on iTunes to continue hustling. This episode is sponsored by Imaging Services, Chiro Health USA, Chiro Moguls, Pure Chiro Notes, Titronics, Sherman College of Chiropractic, New Patients in a Box, The Influencer Authority Podcast Training, Mango Voice, Life Chiropractic College West, and M-Sculpt. Let's Hustle!

LUKE MILLETT (PRODUCER):  Hey guys, welcome to Episode 501 of the Chiro Hustle Podcast. I'm your producer, Luke Mallett, and here's your host, James Chester.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  So today we had the opportunity of interviewing Brenda Toler. And if you want to hear a story about how we are stronger together, stay tuned. Welcome back. This is another episode of Chiro Hustle Podcast. We just crossed the 500 episode mark. This is episode 501. I'm really happy for that. I'm looking forward to the next 500 interviews. Today we have Brenda Toler. I'm really excited to tell her story. Executive Director of Minnesota Chiro We want to get out of their pen and paper and take a few notes. Before we get into today's episode, I want to let you know the big why. Why do we do what we do over here at Chiro Hustle? Well, First Amendment is important to us, protecting freedom of speech. A lot of people don't know this, Brenda, but I got my background in journalism. So I have a journalistic degree. And I never really tell people that's kind of strange. But I did. So I take First Amendment really serious. I think that we should have freedom of speech and chiropractic for certain, because we have things such as medical freedom and family health freedom that chiropractors have been standing on the shoulders of giants, protecting for a long time. So I think that those things are important to talk about. And then B.J. Palmer Sacred Trust. I think that that's something that people just went and looked for B.J. Palmer's last words on their favorite search engine, or they searched for B.J. Palmer Sacred Trust. They'll learn a whole lot more about chiropractic than they previously knew. And that is something I find is super important because we have to remember our philosophy, the foundations of his profession. And if you are a part of his profession, take the Sacred Trust oath and guard it well. And then second to last, we do believe in subluxation based chiropractic. I think it's something that we have to like shine a spotlight on and let people know about. And then lastly, we believe in innate intelligence and universal intelligence. We believe that when man or woman, the physical get adjusted, it connects them to man or woman, the spiritual. And with that being said, Brenda Tolar, welcome to the show.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Thank you, James. I really appreciate that. I'm excited to be here.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah. Well, we're really excited to have you too, because I am looking forward to the perspective that you have as an executive director, really on the front line supporting chiropractic and making sure that chiropractors have a platform of freedom to practice. And I think that that's really important. But before we get into what's important to you and where we are today, let's go back in time a little bit and talk about how you got into chiropractic and maybe share your chiropractic story about how and why you work with chiropractors.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Well, I really love this profession. And I have been in chiropractic, basically my whole life as a patient. And I feel that I've over the decades, I have found that my passion and my dedication is really now towards the younger doctors. And with that, they're our future. And without them, where's our profession going? So their involvement in the state association or the national association helps them to succeed. And with that, MCA is starting our new young professional program that's designed to help these new doctors that are starting out, be successful and start the new journey. And it's working in and on their business, that they're business owners. And that really is my story. That passion. And I live it. And I just have the utmost respect for every chiropractor out there. So it's an honor that I can be here today and then I can be the executive director of MCA.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, I think I'm going to unpack a little bit of your answer there. And I'm just curious, new students, you really have a love for helping them find a strong sense of practice and a strong sense of chiropractic. Where are most of the students coming from that you're helping?

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Now with maybe the executive director of MCA, they're coming from Northwestern.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, actually I've been down a couple years now to speaking at the Chiropractic College is down in Mexico. Fantastic. And there's direct linkage, I believe, from Northwestern to those schools down there in Mexico, correct?

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Well, from what I remember, there was a connection with the Northwestern protocol down there for the schools down in Veracruz, Ecotepic, and in Taluca. And there's actually, if people don't know this, there's three chiropractic colleges down in Mexico. And they're actually producing per unit, more chiropractors second to the United States as professionals yearly. They're making a lot of chiropractors down in Mexico right now. The schools are thriving.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  That's fantastic.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, pretty cool information, right? You know what I'm going to find? So new students are coming from Northwestern. What are you finding as some of their challenges when they come into this young professionals program?

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  You know, I fund this all over the nation. It's just not Minnesota. These young people go into college and they're excited and they're thriving and they're learning all about the body and how they can help their patients through the chiropractic. And when they graduate, they know how to adjust. And when now they're in the real world and then what? And I have found it's just really hard for them to get started. And how do I interview for the front desk? And what do I do, you know, what kind of equipment do I really need to do? And it's just all of that as far as getting your business started is something that they really need help with. And there's ways that you can spend a lot of money and then there's ways that, you know, we're going to help you with your state association. We'll help with that and we'll guide you and connect you to the people that they need to be connected with to really set themselves up to be successful and to grow in their new journey.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  I believe in it so much. There's three ways that people can build their practice, I believe, with their time, their talent or their treasure. And it's the same way of giving back or donating money or donating your time or doing something. But I think that early the upstart phase, a chiropractor probably has a lot more time than they do treasure.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  I want to agree with that.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  So they have to go out and actually put hands on their community. They have to go out and be present in their community and they have to go out and learn how to become the practitioner that they've always desired to be.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Right. And so there's ways that they can do that.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  So outcome scenarios. What do you think that most of the young chiropractors that come into the professional program that you're putting on are looking to accomplish by the time they feel confident enough to go do their practice?

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  You're talking about our young professional program. Yeah. All right. So that's just in the infant stage. We're setting it all up. But the goal is that they're going to be able to either one, know how to apply for business loan to that we're going to help them find an associate position that they would help it or three, they're starting their own and they'll be able to go in and look for location, look for staff, look for equipment. So they're going to be well rounded that they're going to know about the billing and the coding and they're going to know all of that that they need to be successful.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  You know, you hit a grand slam there for me and you talked about people coming in and becoming associates. And I think that there's a huge generation of docs that understand how to adjust, understand philosophy, understand the history of chiropractic. And they're looking, so many of them are looking for a second set of hands to come in and work with them. And if I could ever just encourage anybody that's listening or watching our show to pay attention to what Brenda just said is there are more and more opportunities for young D.C.s to come in and actually get mentorship and to get their career started working side by side with a real deal chiropractor.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  And if I can say one more thing on that, these doctors that have been in practice for a while, they're the baby boomers and that maybe you want to retire, they're looking for someone to take over their position. Your state association is going to know who they are. And two, then they have an opportunity that they can go in and get real life, you know, mentorship and help so that they can then take over and establish practice. How great is that? I mean, really, that's exciting.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  I laugh because I see the necessity for it. Absolutely. I laugh because I think that a lot of people might think this stuff, but they don't know how to articulate it. And I think that as we develop as, you know, connection between Minnesota and Chiro hustle, we're going to help a lot of people fill in the gaps because I think that people, they're all looking, it's just like getting new patients. The patients looking for chiropractic, they just don't know it's chiropractic they're looking for. The new grads looking for an associate position, they just don't know who that associate position is going to be with. Right. So I think that that's an important part of the chiropractic business. And yeah, I think that they need to know how to do the financing and to do that with security and with credibility and with a strategy because, you know, I've also heard this, Brenda, is when a chiropractor gets out of school, they go out there for five years, their success rate and their failure rate is at the same level of a small business because that's what they are. So they're, they're succeeding at the same pace as the small business within that five year sink or swim time. And unfortunately, some of the chiropractors get out there and they do it their own way and they sink within that first five year bubble and they don't make it past that. So we need to see what we can do to save that fail rate at that 50% and mentorship and associate leadership is something that's super important.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  It is. Also, I have to say though, the associations in the state, we're going to help. And that's why MCA itself, we pay their first year after they graduate. We cover it for them because we know that it's hard and you can get so much from your association when they start out that it's, it's important and it's since they're a student, they should join and continue on because it really does support the profession and themselves as a whole.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah. So I want to go to your wheelhouse and why to support the state associations. But before we get to that, I want to talk a little bit about marketing because I know that you had a great perspective on this one, we were chatting off camera. And what advice would you give to these young DCs or these first five year DCs on how to actually grow a practice?

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Yeah, I love that question. We're so social media focused. I do think Facebook in that is, oh, there's always a place for that. But you know, there's a B&I, business networking institute, every location, every state has them and there's different chapters around the state. Getting involved with that is fantastic because you're the only doctor there. They don't allow anybody else in. Students in your area, don't be afraid to go out and give your card, talk to them and then go to the schools. Schools could maybe let you go in and talk to the students, talk to the staff, talk to businesses in your area and if in your area there's trucking, oh my gosh, DOT, I would strongly recommend that as well. I mean, I have to doctors that are in that area. That's a great source of revenue for them. And of course, join your state association because it's important.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  You've made the Chiro Hustle. Sit back and learn from the greatest influencers in the profession on the world's number one chiropractic podcast. This episode is sponsored by Imaging Services, Chiro Health USA, Chiro Moguls, Pure Chiro Notes, Titronics, Sherman College of Chiropractic, New Patients in a Box, The Influencer Authority Podcast Training, Mango Voice, Life Chiropractic College West, and M-Sculpt.  Let's hustle.

Yeah, I think that a lot of times people don't realize how powerful it can be to join our leads in referral group, like BNI, or to be on their chamber. And a lot of these do. They favor exclusivity and they favor working with maybe one to two in a certain sector. And I think that that's really important for them to know is like, hey, it might take up two to three hours of your week. But when you become the go to for like 30 plus businesses in your local community, that's direct impact.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  That's priceless.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  That's direct impact. And everybody gets rewarded for helping each other grow their businesses. So it's like having a little group of people that support your admission and vision because of buy-in and association. Same way with the state association now. So I think this kind of segue perfect for why it's important. And I'll just, before we get into like, you know, you discussed in the why behind this is I found after doing so much work within the profession is a lot of these people, they don't realize that they need to have support from their state association or become a member until they get a board complaint. They don't realize that they have to be protected as a practicing chiropractor by their state association until they need to get out of a situation. And then they're like, hey, as fast as they can knock. And they're on your phone saying, hey, this is what I need. Rather than having like a long term relationship with that state association, a lot of times it starts up on the wrong foot.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Unfortunately, that does happen.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  So why would you say that these every chiropractor should be a paying member of our state associations?

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Well, number one, we all know legislative because you just kind of said that. We have to make sure that we're able to protect our scope and protect our businesses. And who does that with the state association without association? You're alone. And that would be a scary place to be. But other than that, it's to be involved and stay connected. By joining your local state association or even your national association, you are able to be part of some great mentors or be a mentor yourself, the learning capabilities. You're going to be around active and successful peers, the continuing education itself, the discounts that you get, the benefits that you get, and then the suppliers. The doctors have products that they need to stay in business. And many times the suppliers partner with the associations so that they're able to give added benefits to the members, where if you're not a member, you might be playing like the list price. There's so many benefits to being part of this that it's just not legislative and comparative.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah. And I think there is value in the numbers too. The more people that are part of something, there's more strength as an outsider looking in.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Absolutely. We are stronger together and that is my motto.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  And I think that that's really important to focus on too. We are stronger together. And I was telling you off camera that what we do is we're non-denominational when it comes to chiropractic. I just want to make sure that people are practicing chiropractic and taking care of their communities. And I think that a state association helps them do that. And I think that that's something that we really need to like hit the nail in the head when it comes to the why. Why do I support my state association? Because I gave worst case scenario. You gave why to be a part of that community. And I think that if anybody watched this, they should just do it because it's the right thing to do.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  It really is the right thing to do. Because they would just school for this profession. They have to make sure that it's protected.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Absolutely. And just like I say in the opener, we have to protect B.J. Palmer Sacred Trust. And we have to go forth and serve. And I think that that's really important to talk about. So as we continue the conversation today, I'm curious to know like 20 years from now, where do you see chiropractic cutting?

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Love this question. Because I have seen it since the 80s and how things are moving. And what I really think is interesting is the integrated care setting. And with other health care providers is really what patients want. I am not a doctor. I am a patient. And I think this is just the most exciting thing that we're going to see go as we move further down the road that we're going to see more integration.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Well, I'm just going to clean that up a little bit for you. And I think that when we talk about big medical, and we talk about big pharma, we're talking about the wrong type of integration. I think that we should really focus on like a localization of urgent care, having connections with them and building relationships with that type of connection. Because I believe that a lot of referrals come into them. They don't want to see worst case scenario of more people on more drugs getting more unnecessary treatments. I think honestly if the local chiropractor built relationships with their urgent care and practices like that, they would realize that they would get more referrals from those types of facilities because they don't want to give more potions and lotions. They want people to start getting healthier under their guise. And I think that if any chiropractor out there does X-ray, I would recommend them also to build relationships with their local joints. The chiropractor franchise out there that doesn't do X-rays. So they don't want accident patients.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  I didn't catch that they don't want what?

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  They don't want accident patients. They don't want like car crashes. They don't want slip and falls because they don't X-ray. They want maintenance chiropractic adjusting only cases. So I would tell every chiropractor to go out there and build a relationship with that local, just membership style practices that don't do X-rays. And I would say, hey, go out there and take that clinic director out for lunch, get to know them and say, hey, I do more advanced style of care. And if you wanted to have a referral source for those cases that come in with a hot disk or that just got in a car crash that are looking for really like corrective care rather than just maintenance care, I think that that would be a great partnership for them too. So those are a couple of like really good avenues for people, not just the integrative model of like creating a little mini, you know, wellness centers, which I think are great too. Because that's the type of clinic I go to. I mean, the clinic I go to does all types of, you know, care packages and rehab for people. And, you know, there's a big net out there for people that once they get into that system, they get chiropractic. And chiropractic is also a standalone profession, but I think that when you can say integration, that there is a place for these, if you will, many wellness centers within communities that are led by a chiropractor.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Correct. They are. And they're as fascinating. It works. They're doing well. And I like what you said about the emergency room. I think those are things that are all avenues for our doctors to connect with.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Well, I mean, if you go to just about any city with 10,000 people or more, there's at least two urgent cares there. Right. And those people, they aren't hospital systems. They're a different style of facility that actually is looking to help people fast that usually don't have health insurance that are coming to them because they don't want to have a big medical bill. So they're coming to them as a secondary choice based on the big sponsored medical facilities within the city, like the hospitals or the ER.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  But there are some hospitals that do have chiropractic clinics in them.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  That's also important too. And I'll go back always to my friend Eric Plasker. He's a chiropractic first chiropractic second chiropractic third chiropractic fourth chiropractic fifth chiropractic intervention with this six chiropractic. And intervention with that seventh, but always include chiropractic with it. And whether it's surgery or recovery from some deep illness, some entrenched illness, you should always do chiropractic with it. So it's very important to continue care model with whatever that care provider's telling. But I've also seen over my time of doing chiropractic sales and screenings that a lot of these people, once they come into a system like that, they'll tell their patient that comes in not to go see a chiropractor. And I do believe that we need to reintegrate as the integration model follows is to finding the practitioners to understand the value of chiropractic along with whatever they're prescribing, whatever they're saying to go do. They should not disengage people's potentiality with chiropractic just because the dogma of the scope they look through.


JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Right. So yeah, we're speaking the same language. And I do think that integration is something that we're going to see more and more over the next two decades. I do too. Let's turn the page a little bit. Who are some of the people that you've looked up to, some of the people that help you become who you are today, the chiropractic were?

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  So this is more of a difficult question because so many people have entered my life and I couldn't pick out one person. So I'm going to give you an answer in the group. And I think my admiration and everything is for the volunteer leaders because they are taking care of patients. They're volunteering their time to do this. They are taking that extra step and I admire that. And there's quite a few of them.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, there's a lot of people that give for the sake of giving, serve for the sake of serving out of their abundance, expecting nothing to return. Right. And they love for the sake of loving too. And I think that's the basis of dynamic essentials down in Georgia at Sid Williams started. That was his philosophy. And for the sake of giving, serve for the sake of serving, love for the sake of loving out of your abundance, expecting nothing in return. And I think it's a very well thought out process. And I think that if that's something that you admire about the chiropractors, I love that too. They are heroes.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  They are. And that's why I've been involved with them for so long. I mean, it's just I respected admire all of them.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  So let's go granular. If you can pick one person from the history of chiropractic to sit down and have an hour long conversation with maybe it's over a coffee, a drink or lunch or dinner or something, maybe breakfast if they're an early bird. Who would that person be?

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Honestly, I'd say BJ Palmer. You just I'm just amazed by him.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  And the stories you've heard of him. Yeah, you know, I grew up in Davenport, Iowa. People that watch our show listen to our show, they know that one mile from campus is where my boy had home is. And I have like this. I didn't know that chiropractic was so powerful when I was when I was a young man. I didn't know what it actually was. I didn't know it had started in Davenport, Iowa. I didn't know that Palmer College, which was right across from the high school that I attended was the first chiropractic college on planet earth. I didn't know any of this stuff. Amazing. Yeah. And I hurt myself playing high school football. My athletic trainer suggested here we go integration. My athletic trainer suggested that I go to Palmer at age 16. I'm 44 now and get some x-rays of my spine to see if there's anything going on. And I went to Palmer College took my mom took me at 16. They did some x-rays and is actually my shoulder and they did some x-rays in my shoulder. And then the staff doctor there said, hey, is it okay if we actually have his spine to see if anything is going on. And of course my mom wants the best for me. So she said, yeah, go ahead and do it. And ever since then that age 16, I've been a part of this profession. So it's been really cool.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  That's awesome.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah. So at the end of this this interview, I'm always curious to know and I know you had an answer for this before and you're going to share with me. And I'm like, no, save it for the interview. Tell us a miracle story and something that might give our listeners and our viewers hope.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Oh, now you rewarded it on me.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Okay, we'll go back to the original.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  I do have a miracle story and I'm very thankful for it. So MCA just had their lobby day at the Capitol and it was terrible snow and the weather was not good. And we still had like 26 to 20 under 30 people, but they still showed up for a great day. And that to me is dedication. And I think that's a miracle because the weather was really bad.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Well, I think that does give people hope. It does give people hope that. Like you said, we are stronger together. And when people show up, a big part of what I believe in is you just have to keep showing up. We all have stuff going on. We all have a lot of ideas and concerns and the list can go on and on. We could probably add more to it as we talk. But I really believe that showing up is the most important part and sticking together. And knowing that we are more like than we are different and that if we lock arms together, we're harder to knock over. And that, you know, that analogy I gave to you earlier about David and Goliath, they asked David how he could hit the giant. And David said, well, how could I miss the giant? He was so big. And I think that that's a good analogous moment for chiropractic is how could chiropractic keep winning, how could chiropractic not keep winning the other problem of the world is just so big. Yeah, right on.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  You know, I have, I have been all over the world traveling for chiropractic. And one thing I have found, there are different ways, you know, everybody believes in different things for adjusting for their patients and power to them. One thing we all agree on is that we love the profession and we love our patients. And that right there keeps us stronger together.

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  Amen. So at the end of the interviews, I always ask, is there anything I didn't ask you that you like to share with our audience today?

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  No, did I say that they should join their state association?

JIM CHESTER (HOST):  I think we talked a little bit about that, but I'll reiterate. Everybody should join their state association and specifically if you're up in Minnesota, reach out to Brenda and her team and become a member. It's been a real honor to have the executive director of Minnesota on us today. It's a special moment to share the scope of influence from somebody that's not a VC like myself. And that's out there doing the right thing for freedom of speech, medical freedom of family freedom and protecting the sacred trust and supporting civilization based chiropractic and intelligence and universal intelligence. And with that said, I'm going to close out by telling everyone you're just one story way. Keep hustling. I'll see you guys on the next episode. Brenda, it was a pleasure having you as a guest today.

DR BRENDA TOLER DC (GUEST):  Thank you so much. Have a wonderful day. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00:  Bye. Thanks for listening to Chiro Hustle. Don't forget to subscribe and check back next week to continue hustling.


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