February 7, 2024

Ditching the Drugs Skipping the Scalpel with Dr Michael Rubenstein DC – Chiro Hustle Podcast 533

Dr. Michael Rubenstein has previously held various positions within the sales and marketing sector; much of his background has been in business development, customer relations, and helping companies improve their business models and overall customer engagement. He is proud of his ability to help businesses thrive; this includes his own busy practice.

While on his journey, he knew there had to be an even better way to keep more of his patients from drugs and surgery, avoid tedious insurance claims, and increase “private pay services”. Actively searching for ways to achieve this, he became fascinated with deep tissue laser therapy. As he became more and more acquainted with the high-powered, deep tissue laser and watched his own patients achieve amazing results, it was clear this was a secret he needed to share with more like-minded practitioners. As a Co-founder of The Laser Masters and the Relief Now Methods, Dr. Mike will help guide you on how to increase your “private pay” revenue, help more people, and improve the way you currently practice. Dr. Mike shows doctors how to achieve financial freedom – taking the power away from insurance companies and bringing it back into the hands of the doctor, all while helping patients achieve their most optimum health!

When he isn’t actively learning about laser technology or ways to improve his business, Dr. Mike enjoys spending time with his family trying new restaurants and at the beach enjoying the South FL weather.


JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  You made it to Chiro Hustle! Sit back and learn from the greatest influencers in the profession on the world's number one chiropractic podcast. Before we dive into this powerful episode, please remember to subscribe to our channels and give us a 5-star rating on iTunes to continue hustling.

This episode is sponsored by the Transact Card, Align Life, Brain-based Health Solutions, Chiro HD, Imaging Services, Chiro Health USA, Chiro Moguls, Pure Chiro Notes, Titronics, Sherman College of Chiropractic, New Patients in a Box, Life Chiropractic College West, Pro Hockey Chiros, Pro Baseball Chiros, the IFCO, and 100% Chiropractic. LET’S HUSTLE!

LUKE MILLETT (PRODUCER):  Hey guys, welcome to episode 533 of the Chiro Hustle Podcast. I'm your producer, Luke Millett, and here's your host, James Chester.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  So today we have the opportunity of interviewing Dr. Michael Rubenstein, and if you want to hear our conversation about ditching the drugs and skipping the scalpel, stay tuned. Yes sir! Welcome back! This is another episode of the Chiro Hustle Podcast. Today I have Michael Rubenstein coming on from South Florida. I'm really excited about this interview today because we're going to get laser focused. We're going to go down. He says that he has been fascinated with deep tissue laser therapy, and I'm really curious to see how this helps more people. I even have my own laser story. So I'll share that during today's episode. But before we get jumping into this one, I'll let everyone know the big why. Why do we do what we do over here at Chiro Hustle? First things first is the most important part, freedom of speech. We've never censored anyone on the show. We let everybody speak their mind. We believe that the First Amendment is integral to the process of humanity. We also believe in medical freedom and family health freedom. They're not the same things, but they really matter to all of you and our listeners. And then we get into more chiropractic. We do protect the sacred trust. That's BJ Palmer's last words. If you want to know more about chiropractic, go and look up BJ Palmer's sacred trust or BJ Palmer's last words. You're going to learn more about chiropractic than you ever knew before. And then we go a couple layers deeper. We do support subluxation based chiropractic. That's a big word. Please don't remove it from our schools and don't remove it from the language or the lexicon of this profession. And then lastly but not least, we do believe in inate intelligence and universal intelligence. We believe that when man or woman of physical is adjusted, it connects them to man or woman of spiritual. With that, that's the intro. Michael, welcome to the show.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure to connect with the like-minded individuals. So I'm happy to be here.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, man. We really hit it off. And I was telling you, like, you know, like I was doing these like these things where I was hanging from this bar and I was getting this tension in my neck and laser helped that. And I think that a lot of times people, you said ditch the drugs and skip the scalpel. And I think a lot of times people are looking for something to help them. They just don't know it's chiropractic. And a lot of chiropractors are starting to look for other methods to help their patients because they're sicker than ever, man.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  That is not a understated statement right there because, you know, I'm still in practice and on a daily basis when we have new patients come in, we have more people saying, you know, I was, you know, they asked me to get surgery. They want me on these drugs. They prescribe XXMI. And they're like, I just don't want to do it. I'm tired of doing this. You know, and I've been to Kyros before and helped a little bit. And I just want to do a full body, you know, recap it and help me like, what can you do? So people are seeking out these new treatments. Chiropractic is great. You know, all the therapies that are offered at Chiropractic, obviously are great. But we chose to focus on laser therapy because of the amazing things that we've seen. Yes, we do solo jobs. We do believe in subluxation based chiropractic. We do that as well. But we have patients that come in that seek out our practice. And so because we specialize in a way with laser therapy. Okay. Go ahead.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, I was just going to say a lot of times when people are subluxated, Bob Brooks, the guy that had a group called Taking Care of People, rest of Seoul. He was one of our interviews early on. But he always would tell me that the issues are in the tissues. And that when somebody's subluxated, it's causing inflammation around a spinal joint. And I used to do talks at our local chapter for, gosh, what is it, the Chamber of Commerce. Okay. And I was on a professional networking group. And I worked in a clinic for six years. And the docs would make me go, well, they had allowed me to go, not make me, but they had allowed me to go to these networking events and represent the clinic, which I thought was kind of a pain in my butt. But I got to work on my speaking skills.


JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  And one of the things I learned was that if you could relate chiropractic to anybody, you could get breakthroughs for them. So when I tell people you have issues in the tissues, I would actually show them what it looked like when somebody had an abscess tooth. Okay. And then I would say this is what it looks like. The tissue, the soft tissue around your spinal joint, when it's painful. When your back doesn't feel good, you have a cranky hip. I was like, you see that gum with that swelling around that gum and that tooth? That's what it looks like around that joint in your spine.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  Wow. That's a great representation. I like that.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah. I was like, if you want that to get better, you got to see chiropractor. Nothing else is going to do that. I was like, if you take some type of an Advil or something like that, I was like, all you're going to do is numb that down, but that abscess tooth is not going to get better. Does that make sense? And people were like, whoa. So by the end of that talk, I'd close like four to five new business people to come in from that group that mostly everybody in those groups came to saw us anyways. But it's interesting when you can really connect it and dial it in with somebody and make it so like obvious that like just having a pain in your neck isn't just a pain in your neck. And that's why I think that laser or something that's really important for people to consider because, you know, it's not just the adjustment that's going to get people better always.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  Well, that's exactly. So it's funny that you say that. So the way that kind of I talk about it in my office and how we talk to our doctors about it is that, you know, you could be a chiropractor with a laser or you could be a chiropractor and then have a laser pain center. Having the differentiation does a lot of things for your practice, especially our doctors and how we show them how to do it. And the two big things that you'll see and that is very worth noting is that you'll people that'll come in your office that would have never walked to the doors because they would never go to a chiropractor, whatever the stigma may be in their head. So now they're coming in for, you know, pain based treatment to get them feeling better. And while they're there for something that they want, you cannot teach them what they need via chiropractic. There's so many patients that have come through my doors that didn't even know at first, you know, we were chiropractors. They saw laser pain. They saw this and that, you know, a friend sent them in what have you. But after getting true with laser and getting results, they're like, what else do you guys do here? You know, stuff like that. And then we teach them about chiropractic. Then they become a chiropractic patient. So laser can be that initial phase to get them through the door, right, and get them better, build that trust. All right. And also laser therapy also helps with around the joints. If there's pain and inflation around the joints, maybe they're too tight. You can't adjust them. You can do laser on those surrounding areas to make the tissue less inflamed to get that better adjustment. I see that all the time too. So, you know, it's not taking away from chiropractic adding laser. It's actually adding to it and adding to how many people we can help and from different extremities to joints, um, to, to, to sciatica, stuff like that too. Like there's a bigger mission and purpose behind the whole thing.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah. I, I think what you're saying makes a lot of sense. And when, when people think about like getting better, like most people don't care. I mean, I'm just being honest. I've been working as a 14 years. Most people don't go to the chiropractors because they're like, I just want to feel better. Like not, not just because I mean, they want to go because they want to feel better, but it's not just because they're like already feeling great. They usually go to the chiropractor because they're not feeling good. And it's not just because somebody's like, Oh gosh, I run marathons. I just want to like optimize my body. That's like one in 10.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  Yeah. But most people don't know how badly they feel because they're so used to feeling that way. Right. That one person, maybe their whole life, you know, they're, they're living very dim down. Maybe they have a pain in their foot, but it's just like I have, I've had it for so long. I don't even realize I have it. It's just part of my life. And I have that happen with patients all the time too. Like, like after coming to see us for a little while, even just for chiropractic, right? They're like, Oh wow, like I didn't realize I could feel this good. Right. Or even with laser, I don't realize like I had pain in my elbow, but it was just there. Right. I thought it was just part of my life.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  And then you got to reexam them.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  And they're like, Wow, I could do this. I could do that. It doesn't hurt when I do this. I can play basketball for six hours. I feel great. Like thank you. I can do that because they weren't living at their full potential. Their nervous system wasn't opto optimally functioning. And we gave that to them. So it's amazing to see that.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, you know, I back to it again. Like, when I worked in a clinic, I would do the reexam sometimes and the doc was busy. Sure. And sometimes I'd ask people like after their seventh visit, that's when we do them and people sometimes they were feeling so great. They wouldn't even remember why they started. I'm not even kidding you. Like I would ask people like, Hey, do you remember what your initial complaint was when you first came in here? No, I'm like, bro, you could barely walk or do you remember those headaches? Like it was a 10 out of 10 here. That's on our notes. And you tell me you don't even remember what you came in here for.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  And it's funny because that happens a lot too. Like they don't even because it's like sometimes people want to realize the absence of something. Right? Maybe someone was like, I was brushing my teeth, bending over at the sink and I would have this sharp pain in my back. And then you ask them about it two weeks later and like I said that, like, oh, it's right. It doesn't happen anymore. It's weird and it's like some phenomenon that happens, but they just don't remember it. It's strange.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  And, you know, but when people come in, you also get them tuned up with thinking about, you know, the different, you know, baseline things of life. Chiropractors like drink more water, get more sleep, exercise, get sunshine, eat real food. And then when people start getting like chiropractic and then help with laser, their body is healed naturally. You know, I tell people, an intelligence is always on the job. If I cut my finger, I don't have to look at and tell it to heal. It's going to heal naturally. And that's the beautiful thing about the chiropractic adjustment is when you correct that vertebral subluxation, the body gets a chance to heal naturally. And I think that that's the real cool thing about this profession is why, you know, you, you create these relief method centers, these laser centers, helping people with pain. It also gives people a gateway into the chiropractic lifestyle.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  Exactly. It's another portal of entry for doctors. And you know, a lot of the doctors, I mean, I would say most, because we have about 40 plus offices at this point that are relief now, laser doctors. And you know, their whole practice is elevated, right? Whether it's not just about the laser, right? Yeah, the laser brings more people in because it's new and it's fresh and how we position and talk about it, which is awesome. But there are 10x in the practice because it's breathing new life into the practice. We have a lot of guys that we're getting so burnout from chiropractic simply because a lot of these guys, you know, don't get paid and women to don't get paid with their work. The insurance companies are so difficult to deal with. Most people want to use their insurance. And it's funny. People will come in gladly spend a good amount for laser therapy, but if you tell them an adjustment, 50 bucks, they'll be like, no, my insurance doesn't cover the adjustment. I don't want to do it. But they'll gladly pay $300, $400, whatever dollars for laser therapy packages because it's different. It's new, right? So it's such an interesting way of thinking everyone is, you know, not everyone, but most people now are just, I want my insurance picks to paying a lot for their insurance. So I understand that mindset. But when you explain to them that the insurance only covers certain things, other like, well, I just want to cover that until you explain how laser works and then they trust you. You're getting them better and you go, you know, let's check your, let's check your hips today for an adjustment just to make sure you're walking. I know your knees been bothering you. Right. So it kind of all feeds together and by bringing in, you know, laser or offering laser differently, or being a chiropractor with a laser paint center, it breathes in life into the office to raise the office as a whole, right? So you're vibrating now on a higher level because you're helping people that you knew would never come to see you just for chiropractic. And now you can actually treat them as chiropractic patients.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Well, one of our top tier sponsors of our show is called BTSL Industries and they run a couple of products, the one on my hat, it's called the M-Sculpt Neo. Okay. And they also have the M-Cella and they have the M-Face, which are non-surgical ways of rehabbing people's bodies. Like if you do like an M-Sculpt treatment, it's the equivalent of doing 10,000 crunches in a 30 mile session. If you do the M-Cella, it's a chair. It was brought to the market for urinary incontinence, urge and stress.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  Oh, I've seen that actually.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So these things, I told the phrase I gave to them is it gets people better faster. And I think the same thing for lasers. And that's where I get a chance to maybe tell the story if I count about like, I was hanging from these bars. I was listening to this Joe Rogan podcasting on this doctor, Peter Teon there. And Peter Teo was saying, hey, as people age, they don't have better balance and better vitality typically. He's like the best way to get better balance and vitality is having grip strength, which I thought was really wild because I was brought up in the chiropractic biophysics world. I was trained as a traction technician. I did 500 traction setups a week. It was like the coolest part of life is rehabbing people's spines. But when I was doing these polls, because he said, if you want to increase like your strength over time, you have to like hang from a bar and build your grip strength because most of the time when people get like disabilities as they get older, they fall. And like instead of if your grip strength is good, you'll like fall and roll. If your grip strength is poor, you like splat and like you like injure yourself or break a hip or break an arm or dislocate a shoulder or something. But he's like, if your grip strength is good, you'll have a better chance of rolling out of it. Basically, he says that it's a direct link to vitality. Oh, wow. So anyways, I'm doing this thing. I'm hanging on to these bars every time I go to the gym, like five days a week. And I started getting like this like really sharp pain in the back of my neck. And anyways, I'm down at this event with Mark Santa in the remarkable practice. And he had a vendor there that was doing laser had like this big like honky in class four laser and I said, Hey man, I've been hanging on to this bar and I'm getting these things going on. Do you think that would help me? And he did it for three minutes. Felt like a little warm because it's right on my hairline. You know, if you get on hair with a laser kind of warm, class four laser actually produce

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  it's not producing heat. It's the actual jewels of energy going to the tissue, which produces a heat that you feel. So it's the energy actually going to the tissue.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  You made it to Chiro Hustle! Sit back and learn from the greatest influencers in the profession on the world's number one chiropractic podcast. Please remember to subscribe to our channels and give us a 5-star rating on iTunes to continue hustling.

This episode is sponsored by the Transact Card, Align Life, Brain-based Health Solutions, Chiro HD, Imaging Services, Chiro Health USA, Chiro Moguls, Pure Chiro Notes, Titronics, Sherman College of Chiropractic, New Patients in a Box, Life Chiropractic College West, Pro Hockey Chiros, Pro Baseball Chiros, the IFCO, and 100% Chiropractic. LET’S HUSTLE!

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  So anyways, when it's on your hair, it feels different. It feels hotter. Yeah. So I was feeling that and then the next day he did it again that night I went and worked out the hotel gym and I was hanging from this bar again. And I haven't had that since then, man. So I became like really like interested in the laser world after I had that result. So I know there's a lot of people out there that are dealing with things like you said, something in their knee, something to go back, something in their shoulder. And they just don't know what to do. And they're thinking of taking like opiates or thinking about, you know, whatever it is that doctors that aren't chiropractors give people these days, I don't know what they give people anymore. But most of the times people turn to addicts.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  It's really just like if you're not going to a Chiro or, I mean, a deal can help a little too. But a lot of times like on the medical front, it's surgery, it's drugs, it's injections. I mean, it's not the things to actually eat better at the cause. It's to massive symptoms. And yeah, maybe eventually your body will heal it, you know, because a lot of people you know, come into my office too. Like they'll tell me, oh, yeah, I had a wrist issue, but I was taking anti-inflammatories for three months, like three months. How's your stomach feeling? Right. But like, oh yeah, my wrist went away, you know, cause the, and they make this connection with the NSAIDs that it helped them heal. Right? But it's really just it masked it long enough for the body to heal it on its own. So how much quicker could that risk the feel of you did laser where you got it adjusted and you got your cervical check for cell relaxation. So it's a bigger picture and mission. You know, a lot of people don't realize the detriment that they're doing to their health by just staying on the strokes for a long term.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, you know, as, as we get to it, it's, I always try to tell people it's not us against them, but I always urge people to, if they're going to ever have some type of medical intervention, whether it's over the counter or prescription that include chiropractic in that, like don't stop doing chiropractic services or getting adjusted just because you now have some other medical intervention. So if you get a surgery, still get adjusted. If whatever's going on, if you're pregnant, still get adjusted, you know, I think that a lot of times people are like, Oh, I got to do this because, or I can't do that because I'm doing this now.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  Correct. And I see that too. And I tell patients to listen, if you have an issue, you break your arm and the bones poking through you need to, you cut yourself and need stitches. Yes, go to the go to a medical doctor, go to the hospital, get it fixed. Then come see me. Don't go see me first. Take care of that, get mended up and then we'll adjust you, right, to help with these nerve interference with you laser over the area after the tissue or after the stitches come out, stuff like that. So, you know, everything has its place. Unfortunately, the model that's bestowed into, you know, United States, if you will, is backwards. It's always invasive first and then least invasive. It should be the other way around. It should be chiropractic, laser, diet, exercise, you know, meditation, hydration. And then, okay, let's check the medical route, right? Let's go then invasive. Okay, maybe then we need to get some injection because nothing else is working, right? But it's just so backwards. It's just, it's frustrating.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Well, it goes back to chiropractic philosophy and that's limitations of matter. Yes. Somebody's 40 years old and they haven't taken care of their body for so long. There's only so much that any skilled chiropractor is going to do.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  Correct. It's just, there's limitations to matter, right? So, um, that's all the patients too, right? You know, they go, how long is the laser going to take to use or how long is the adjustment going to hold or how long is it going to take? And I was like, listen, I only have a general idea, but again, if you came to see me in 1999 or, you know, whatever it was, I can only do so much of the 2023 version of you, right? You're now 50 years old. So you got to take that into consideration. This is the model for five years. If you saw us five years ago when it first started, yeah, we could definitely get ahead of it more so. But now it's five years later, it's a chronic issue now, right? So I'm going to help you as much as we can. I'll give you the best effort and the best treatment we can, but I can't promise you how it's going to work at this point because it's been so far, right? It's about getting in front of it. And that's what patients need to understand people need to understand too. You need to get in front of your issue before it happens hopefully, but even, you know, as soon as it happens, get treatment. Like I hurt myself in CrossFit the other day, hold some of my back or you have to go to one of my docs who's local. It's like, Hey man, I need to come in. It was within 12 hours. I needed to get something done. I needed to get some laser on me. So I did laser and adjustment. I even got cupping done. I mean, and next day I was better. Right? Now if I were to let that sit for three days, four days a week, how much worse would it have gotten? Right? I'm going to miss workouts. I would miss, I would have been harder to adjust patients and see patients. I spent time with the family and my daughter and you know, all those little things that happen people don't think about because they're like, Oh, well, I'll just, you know, I don't need to see anybody. I'll just let it go. But if they were immediate in their action and did everything with intent, you get fixed. Right? They wouldn't need to go in on to medical route or, you know, or the pain relieving route. Just go to the source of the issue.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah. People just don't take care of it quick enough and then they get it. Then something manifested that now takes a lot of care and a lot of time and a lot of effort. More importantly, it takes like your resources, your time and money. But yeah, when I think about these types of cases, when I worked in a clinic, I would kind of explain people's health like a spring. And if you don't take care of yourself a long time, the tension in your body builds up like a spring will get tight. And after time, the spring will eventually pop because of the tension on it. And I said, that's a lot of times what happens with the spinal segment in your back. Like it just, it's so much tension built up with lack of mobility, lack of stability. And then too much strain and movement where it's not a strong enough core that eventually something's going to give. And it's usually one of the segments in between your 24 movable spinal segments, which is a soft part in the middle called a disc. And I was like, a lot of times people don't realize that, but that's like goes directly to the organ system. So if you have pain there, it means that your organ system is not organized. It means that there's a disorganization and disease. I was like, so when we have to like, un-take the tension out of you, we have to remove the tension out of your nervous system. That takes a while to unwind and take that tension out of that spring and get it back to the point where it's like, has spring in it again. And it would really make sense to people like these analogies that I've learned to use with people over the years, like people are like, yeah, that does make sense. And I would go, and there's like this buckle here. So if we can pull a pull through there and we can restore the curve there, now this point of tension's gone. And now we can get you back to a point of like mobility and stability. Yeah.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  And the other thing too, the patients come to see us when they were suggested to get an MRI. Maybe they have sciatica, let's say, but the sciatica's caused by herniated disc. But maybe if they took the time like month a year prior to the herniation to get adjusted, to get mobility into the spine, herniation, never what had happened. And a lot of the times when they come in for a discrimination and they have the records with them, I go over their MRI and I explain it to them, they go, wow, like I got this from this orthopedic and they never explain. They just told me I had a herniation. And them, they don't know what it is. I break it down, explain exactly what's going on, exactly what happened and how we can correct it and how the best costs to help get sucked back in the best we can with inflammation. They're like, wow, thank you. Just for explaining it. A lot of these people that come in, they have no idea. They're googling stuff. They don't want a herniation or a bulge's. They don't know what an syndicated disc is. So the lack of education from automatic providers is also troubling because they're not explaining what's going on. All right, well, this is what you have, you need a shot, any surgery. That's all they can do. I'll give you some pills.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Another life run.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  Yeah, exactly. And so we also started doing laser disc decompression, right? So just give you an idea. And we have patients that have been getting adjusted that see that and seeing other chiro's and they're like their last resort. So they come in for non-surgical spinal cord compression that we combine with laser and we coined it laser disc decompression. So I was, and we have a table where we actually do it prone as well. So we can do laser at the same time, which is really cool. But I explained to these patients that like what the disc is, the anatomy of the disc. Like what I say to them and for some people might not know, like I super explanation. I tell them that the disc is 86% fluid. There's no nerves to the disc. There's no blood supply to the disc. The only way the disc is healthy and hydrated is by the spinal bone, when you go around it and you're by your galley movements throughout the day. And those movements bring fluid nutrients option into the disc and then add the disc into this canal almost like a pool filter. And they go, okay. They go, yeah. So what happens is this is called the pump mechanism, but it could be a trauma. It could be a fall. It could pick something up too heavy. It could be age and the pump mechanism can break. Hence, now you're more subtle than herniation and bulges. And I tell them like, oh, wow, I've never heard that explanation before. I was like, well, yeah, like that's what you're going on. And this is how we can help correct it and fix it. But it's a lot of education too. Right? All these little things help. I feel like the patients that understand exactly what we're doing and how we're doing it in the process, they get better because they trust the process. So slow.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah. And I really believe in the decompression model, like people don't know what like a derailment of quality of life is until they get a hot disk in their lumbar spine. Oh, yeah. Like if you want to see somebody's life go from vitality to like worst days ever, give them a hot disk, put some compression on the sciatic nerve.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  Oh my God. You know, I people limp into the office and you feel for them because I've never had that. But I've never before, you know, you know, first and you know, you just see the look on their face and they're only relief if any, right? Because sometimes it doesn't work. They could pump them again, pain-veged, you know, ejections, surgeries, or we got to put you under to fuse this area or do a disectomy or, but they're like, no, like there's got to be a better way. Like I'm not doing that because they've heard the horror stories that heard of the back, this failed back surgeries and they're not people are more educated now than ever.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  So we talked about the power of laser. Sure. We talked about how the medical system has kind of gone the wrong direction with a lot of these cases and how we could better have a least invasive first. And that's like a preferable stance for I think most of our listeners, 20% of the chiropractic population listens to our show. So people that are really interested in this, let's talk to them about the business model. How do you do what you do and how can it like benefit people that might want to consider having one of these relief now method centers?

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  So great question. So we show doctors, we are a laser practice growth company and we show doctors how to help more people through laser therapy. And the business model is simply we help them show that there's a great value in the differentiation of a chiropractic and a laser pain center. So for example, it'd be Jim Chester chiropractic and Jim, forgive me, where are you from again?

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Grand Junction, Colorado. Okay.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  And it'd be Grand Junction Laser Pain Center. So you have the differentiation of both practice and the doctor's office of chiropractic and laser pain center. And you branded as such and you got to think of the Dunkin Donuts Baskin Robins model, right? So people were going to come in for ice cream, they were going for donuts, maybe they'll eventually mix or crossover. What we find when this happens, you're going to get people that come in A, better by the chiropractors. And I'm not saying still people's patients, but some chiropractors, especially down here in South Florida, there's so many chiropractors, any doctor in chiropractic can tell you, any person probably can tell you, but it makes that change, differentiation, differentiation in your practice. So you help people that see have other chiropractors that will never come and see you before because they're real that a chiropractor, where you're coming down to see you for laser therapy. People will never come to see you because you're a chiropractor at times due to the negative stigma. We don't believe it to be a negative stigma, but there are still as unfortunately, both will come to see you if you're a laser pain center. You also have people that have tried further distances to come to you. We had a gentleman before we had a few locations in Orlando, he was driving from Orlando to South Florida in the plantation area where our practice is, and just to give you a distance, it's three and a half hours each way. So he was driving three and a half hours to us, wouldn't even get a hotel room, drive three and a half hours back for a consecutive series of treatments. And we said, hey, I remember his name, but he said, hey, Jim, we could find someone up there and say, no, I like how when we spoke on the phone, how you talked about laser, how you explain laser, hate position laser, you guys, I give you the experts, I want to come see you. I don't care how long it takes. And not only did he get better, what are you raved about because it's how you position yourself. And that's how we help these doctors position themselves as laser pain centers because you could be a chiropractor with a laser or you could be a laser pain center. So it's about that's kind of like how we teach the doctors is more to that, but that's at the basis.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah. And the thing I like about that, that messaging that you just shared with us is there's a saying that how you do one thing is how you do everything. Correct. So I really believe that anybody that's considering having laser into their office, they should consider joining the laser masters group that you have and learning in the ins and outs of the business. I know you guys don't do sales of lasers, but I think it's a really good place to learn more about class for lasers and the business model that you guys help implement for practitioners that want to take their practice to the next level. I say this almost every time I sent over like seven questions to go over on this interview today. We probably didn't touch on too many of them, but is there anything that you really wanted to touch on on that question list that I didn't ask you?

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  Well, what I can tell you, well, first thing is where do I see the chiropractic profession in about 20 years? I see it better because I think there's been more technology to help doctors and it's greatest adjustment by hand, but I think the more that we can change at the times, whether it be laser or whether it be certain vibration plays, I think that's going to take people to the next level. And I think with with AI, it's going to hurt a lot of people on a tech front, but with our hands and what we can do with lasers and other therapies in the office, that will never be disturbed. Anything people are going to want to seek that out more because that personal touch is going to be gone. If you were going to want to seek the brick and mortar stuff out more and I think in 20 years, we're going to be busier and never because people are going to finally go, I'm not trusting the medical model first. I know it has its place and we're educated now. I'm going to go see my chiropractor first as my primary doctor to stay healthy and be healthy and that's where I see it going.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Well, that's one of the reasons that I brought on partners like BTL Industries, like I said with the MSCOPE because people better faster. And I think the same thing for laser care is it gets people better faster. And if we can do anything to biohack the physiology of a person that has an injury or that is dysfunctional or has some type of a pain response, we can do better for people as a whole. And I really believe that people in 20 years are going to be more inclined to want full body health and wellness. And people's posture is crap right now. And it's not getting any better and people are sedentary. When I got into this profession 14 years ago, back then they said sitting is the new smoking. So now sitting is like pretty much people's quality of life and people are exercising more. They're heavier. They're not taking care of their bodies as well as they used to. There's less money for them to spend on quality calories to put into their body. And I mean, there's a lot that we can do with laser and there's a lot that we can do with full body health and wellness. Absolutely. I appreciate you jumping on today and talking to us about anytime I'm in about how the laser the part of chiropractic and how the profession can intersect with laser care.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  100% anytime I'm here, I'm here to educate and help and everybody grow up because at the end of the day, like I said earlier, it's a common mission and goal. I mean, whether you're this technique or that technique or your straight chiropractic or your hate modalities, you could literally hate your laser. I really don't care. The whole common goal from all of this is to help more people. Again, like I said before, get to the drug, skip the scalpel and help more people live and thrive and get away from drugs and surgery. I mean, that's why we do this to help more people. And no matter what modality or way you do it, that's why we're all here. So a rising tide lifts all ships, right? So, you know, together as one we can help more and more and more people.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  So Michael Rubenstein, I appreciate you being episode 533 of the Chiro Hustle Podcast.

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  Thank you, sir. I appreciate you having me on.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, man. I look forward to future conversations with you and see how we can help more people together.


JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Yeah, man. So if people wanted to work with you and connect with you further, where can we send them to?

DR MICHAEL RUBENSTEIN DC (GUEST):  So first thing is you can go to our corporate site, which is the laser And then if you want to check out our national directory website for all of our relief now doctors, it's And then you can message me on my Instagram, docroob24. So D O C R U B E the numbers two and four and message me any questions. We want to know more. Love to help you out.

JAMES CHESTER (HOST):  Great, man. So if you guys want to get in touch with Dr. Michael Rubenstein, go to the laser or docroob24 on Instagram. Great man. So I'm going to close out by telling everyone that you guys are just one story way. Keep hustling. I'll see you guys in the next episode. Bye for now, doc.


JAMES CHESTER (HOST): Bye. Thanks for listening to Chiro Hustle. Don't forget to subscribe and check back next week to continue hustling.

This episode is sponsored by the Transact Card, Align Life, Brain-based Health Solutions, Chiro HD, Imaging Services, Chiro Health USA, Chiro Moguls, Pure Chiro Notes, Titronics, Sherman College of Chiropractic, New Patients in a Box, Life Chiropractic College West, Pro Hockey Chiros, Pro Baseball Chiros, the IFCO, and 100% Chiropractic. LET’S HUSTLE!


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